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Post by fbomb on Jul 9, 2012 1:47:57 GMT -6
I'm now confused on the topics we can speak of on this board. This board since it's origination has allowed the right to be heard as long as you flat out didn't use someone's sir name and then call them names at least without substantiation as most boards allow.
This board which is noticeably declining in posts second only to the local mud trucks showing up at local tracks. Having said that any advertisement or interest I would think would be gladly welcomed. As of late we have had several new rules enforced without warning, and I'm sure I am not alone when asking for a clarification on Overlanders policy.
1st is Facebook: Can anyone speak about facebook or just certain people. Or do they have to only speak of the Overlanders Mug Club facebook. Or can you speak of your own personal facebook? How about other mud club's facebook? Are you allow to talk in your facebook about Overlanders? If someone else talks about the Overlanders in your facebook can you answer them. How about this crazy one, can you start a facebook to help support the overlanders. What are the new guidlines?
Next is race tracks: If you can only speak of one facebook, can you only speak of the Overlanders races? You can't talk about other races can you? Because that would be very similar to talking about a facebook that supports another track. Or worse yet can we talk about an Overlanders track supported by an unsupported facebook? It would be strange to allow the referencing of other tracks but not other facebooks wouldn't it?
How about keeping on the topic subject of the post? I had a post removed because it was referenced by the person acting as admin that the topic was "who was attending the fair race". In that same post there were other people talking about going racing at other tracks, there were other people including the club president talking about facebook. But I was singled out because I wasn't talking about the initial subject? Others posts were not removed or addressed in any way.They were not even warned? How is that fair? What standards are we using here? There were at least 5 other people in that list of postings that were not addressed for being off subject only one person? So what are the new rules allowing some people to speak off exact topic and others not?? I'd just like to know so that I and others know where to draw the lines and who has to abide by those lies and who does not?
Please explain someone?
Jeff McCue
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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2012 11:04:38 GMT -6
In answer to your question, nothing has changed. The following are the guidelines as posted in Just A Reminder thread here. overlanders4x4.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1745&page=1#7609Jeff, I think that you have a gift with words, and I even admire that gift. And especially right now, I wish I also had such a gift of words. To bad you don't put it to use in a positive manner. I have sat here and watched you day after day use that gift to bad-mouth the Overlanders4x4 club. You have managed to use "positive" words to misrepresent facts in a negative manner. For instance, posting that people are not coming to their race because of something that happened on this message board is really a negative post-- especially when it is based on half truths and innuendos that you seem to have supplied to these people. You didn't tell people that the Overlanderes are not trying to stop you or anyone from "Spreading the word" but they have not sanctioned or supported your Facebook account about Overlanders4x4 because they have one of their own Facebook accounts. That is the real problem. You sort of turned it all around to make it look as though their sole purpose was to stop people from getting the word out. And you have posted that type of negative message several times in the guise of being helpful. I rarely delete a post myself, believing that our readers can see through the ruse and make up their own mind. But all of this has gotten on my last nerve. It is a negative post, and under the guidelines could be deleted. I know you have issues with the club, in fact, believe it or not, in some ways I understand, BUT trying to destroy participation in the clubs races by using their own website by twisting the facts I find totally unacceptable. As far as Facebook, I have absolutely no control as I also don't control others who are in charge of this message board. But what I am told is that the club does not want a Facebook page controlled by you. I can see their point. Here when you get carried away with your negative remarks, there is always the delete key they can use. But when you control the whole shebang without their consent and/or participation---well, can't you see the problem they foresee?? But that is a problem you need to settle with the Overlanders4x4 Club in private and not on this message board. They have authorized the other Overlanders Club Facebook account. I have already stated my thoughts on any Facebook page in another thread. Jeff you are an asset to any message board. you like to post and post often and often post mind provoking and interesting things. Please go back to being that kind of poster. Right now, your hidden agenda screams out. I would really like to see posts from the "old Jeff" fun and truly supportive, and not posts with ulterior motives. Normally, I would send a message like this as a private email, but you seem to be a public kind of guy, so hopefully I have not offended your sense of privacy. Take care and hopefully you can make peace with others and your own feelings Sincerely, Arlene |
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Post by fbomb on Jul 9, 2012 11:18:20 GMT -6
Arlene,
Thank your post. I do respect your opinion, and understand your concern. I understand how you would think that I am becoming unproductive but I request that you put yourself in my position.
I think there may be two things going on that may make your opinion of my slightly inaccurate. One is honestly your away from a lot of things that are going on and it's kind of hard from the outside to form an accurate account of what is to be expected successful 4x4 clubs in the midwest.
Secondly it will be hard for you to post why or what is authorized on this board when you yourself is not the one removing the posts.(I'm not questioning your authority or judgement, just the lack of hard facts related to the removed posts) You can not see my posts that were removed. So if you were the one removing them we could speak of the reasons why, openly or privately would be alright with me.
So I'm really not trying to be disrespectful toward you. If I get time later I will address your above posting as a whole. I appreciate the compliments but do take issue with some of your points that I would like the opportunity to comment on.
Nice to hear from you,
Jeff McCue
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Post by fbomb on Jul 9, 2012 17:03:26 GMT -6
(Yes Arlene public is fine. Actually I prefer on this board. I like it because we can all actually see what is being said and how people react. When stories are repeated by word of mouth especially in these parts the truth seems to get lost in the shuffle after it goes through several people.)
Dear Arlene,
It appears I have a lot to answer for so this will be rather lengthy. I will start with the most current issue at hand and attempt to chronologically move backwards through the quagmire. Lol
FACEBOOK
Face book- If you were to check on the main facebook page and do a search you would surely find that there are multiple pages about just about everything from spiderman to John Wayne. Obviously, none of which are kept by the original people or characters.
Overlanders Mud Club – facebook page was first brought to my attention through a facebook invite weeks ago. I ignored it not knowing exactly what it was. A week later I got another invitation to join through a past Overlander racer (who has not posted here in a while and for the first time in years will not be attending any Overlander race this year) So at that point I requested to join the “Overlanders Mud Club Page” (Which I have now learned is sponsored by the Overlanders) Apparently this is the one “sanctioned by the club. ”I waited days with no approval so I went to check the status and the “owners” of that page had blocked me all together. I have made this incident known on this message board and in person to the president himself. So I then asked on this bulletin board who was running the “Overlanders Mud Club” facebook page and no one would answer? The post had been read many times and Overlanders officials had logged in and still no answer.
So at this point I decided if I have never even seen this page, never posted, then brought it to the clubs attention asking for some answers and it still was ignored then looks like I would have to make my own Overlanders facebook page. I never once said that the Overlanders ‘owned” or maintained the page. I simply, openly and honestly said that it would be a page linked to the Overlanders site to spread the word of the Overlanders and their races. Then I posted on the bulletin board that I had started the page because of the “above listed reasons” and I was spreading the word of the Overlanders races. My postings were then taken down. Now on this bulleting board we can talk about other race tracks, other race organizations, and Overlanders rules, races and similar topics shouldn’t we probably be allowed to let everyone know that the word of the Overlanders races were being spread on facebook? But we can’t? This makes no sense. I can make an Overlanders flyer and put it in a gas station or grocery stores and post on the board and that’s fine. But when I do that same thing electronically it becomes and issue and the Overlanders not only don’t say thank you for your help, but delete my posts multiple times. How is this helping people come to Overlanders races? What harm was there to the Overlanders for me posting saying via facebook there was people coming to the race. When I see someone at a race and tell them of a future Overlanders race do I first have to pull out a piece of paper out of my pocket and show them that it bares the Overlanders seal of approval, and I now have permission for me to discuss the Overlanders races in public?
An Overlanders member did find that facebook page and went into a rant on there (I left it up) this caused one person to actually get a hold of me and say “who is that crazy person doing all the yelling on your Overlanders facebook page.” I could only say “It was an Overlander member” Then they were speechless also not understanding how the Overlanders would be angry about people spreading the word of their races.
So that is what happened. Arlene you are wrongly accusing me of spreading falsehoods about the Overlanders not wanting the word spread. That is exactly what they are doing.
What the Overlanders should have done was:
1) Contact their Overlanders facebook people and reprimand them for disallowing new members to join their facebook page. Next get a hold of the applicant that was unjustly refused membership.(me) and advised that the situation has been taken care of and I am now encouraged to join the "Overlanders Mud Club' on facebook.
THEN
2) Thank me for putting in the work, putting my name on the line on behalf of the Overlanders for starting an Overlanders facebook page and connecting it to me personally. And realize that 1400 mud racing contacts could provide is a huge database for potential racers to attend the Overlanders events.
Instead the Overlanders attempted to have me stop advertising their races, deleted my postings and said nothing to the members who ran the facebook page, offering me no apology for their members wrongful actions.
I sure got a mixed bag of results also when it came to the “Overlanders Mud Club page.” When I asked who was running it, President Roger said he knew nothing about it on one post, in another he said they did take about it in June’s meeting but he didn’t know who was running it. (Either Roger got a little confused or he didn’t actually author all those posts bearing his name.)And in person on the phone President Roger was rather upset saying that’s why he didn’t like facebook because people would do things like not let others join. But I was confident that President Roger was going to give my advertising the races on facebook the green light after our phone conversation. But after not hearing back from him after the meeting and having my posts deleted for the second time I’m guessing he wasn’t for me spreading word to the 1400 potential racers of the Overlanders Fair race.
So Arlene there is the facebook explanation. Was I treated fairly? Are the Overlanders going to get any mote people to their races given their interactions with me?
The answer is easy..see #1 and #2 above, but instead they chose a confrontational path that did them absolutely no good and won them no new fans, racers, or members.
Jeff McCue
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Post by fbomb on Jul 9, 2012 18:23:40 GMT -6
Arlene,
I think that you totally misunderstand my intentions, and I believe that you may not be alone. If someone doesn't care about something it is very easy for them to just walk away not showing any compassion. That is true in any form of a relationship which is what the Overlanders and their members are, "A group that has a common bond that must learn how to coexist"
You say I used to be positive and before.. mainly that's because the club had positive things going for it, that was not an accident. Active members working toward the betterment of the club as far as equity and conditions for all while putting on great events and playdays.
As a member my main problem with the club as a whole: MONEY
As the club has taken step after backwards step I have brought it to their attention tens of times and it has fell on deaf ears. Please check their bank account now? The membership has deteriorated. I have seen the club with just about nothing in the early days and I was fortunate enough to be part of the organization when we worked together. To be honest once Doug and Bill left the money started to disappear. I tried to help operate the club like a business but people actually wanted some club money put in their own race classes for their own benefit. At one point they tried to put 500.00 in my 6 cyl class and I boldly spoke out against it, and it didn't happen. I watched the club pee away thousands at a time throwing it at races with little or no return, or chance of return. (Ask Mike) No business or club without operating capitol can survive when they go in the red year after year. After about two years of intentionally loosing money and not caring, I distanced myself in a helpful capacity.
As a member the next problem I have with the club,
Participation lack of positive but overwhelming on negative: the club does not have positive, not from this board, meetings or fundraisers. Nobody wants to work. Last year while inactive I still had to make the Peoria flyers because the club ignored Peoria's repeated pleas to get them a flyer for their fair book. The club couldn't even do that?There are not and have not been any solid attempts at generating any money. Justin is trying, bless his little heart, I hope that he will find success. But on the other hand give someone a little authority and they want misuse it at their earliest opprotunity. I will only elaborate further the fact that the numbers don't lie. Check anything to do with me and when i have brought a shortcoming to the Overlanders attention. The board lights up!! Everyone wants to read dirty laundry. That's the kind of participation we have here.
The problem I have with the Overlanders as a racer:
All of these have been topics that I brought to this board after I was treated unfairly.
1)They made rules against my truck on the only rules meeting I'd missed ion over 5 years.
2)They said dex's carb was good to me in person so he spent over 1000.00 on a carb and then they wouldn't let him race his class
3)They tried to not let me register after I brought three out of state trucks that had raced the night before in Missouri to our race. Yes the 6cly classes were running we'd driven on little sleep hundreds of miles I was making a carb change in the pits the second I arrived and Mike said he was told I was not to be allowed to register.
Is the kind of unfairness that you call negativity on my part? When I speak out after I feel I'm being mistreated? If I was out to ruin the Overlanders there are much more devious and secretive ways to do that. I hide nothing. Most people are gone now, having been ran off. I stayed because I care to some degree. I just can't be part of what's going on as of the last two years. If I didn't care like I said, I would walk away. But at this juncture I feel the ship is sinking, the Overlanders are running out of money and membership. It bothers me, but doesn't surprise me that they just continue to try and focus on the little things like a guy that had once again been mistreated trying to get racers to come to an Overlanders race. That is their focus for this week.
Jeff McCue
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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2012 18:51:19 GMT -6
Jeff,
The main issue I was referring to in my post was the way you have used positive words to make a negative post. The only reason I even brought up Facebook was because you had used that situation, to twist around to make it look like they didn't want you to "spread the word". Which wasn't so. You know that the real reason for the anger was because you continued with the Facebook page and negative posts here, even after you were told the club is sanctioning another Facebook page. And you continued to post a link to it here even though you were asked not to do so. I explained in my previous post why they are against you running a Facebook page representing the club.
As to the time line of who knew what--surely you realize with the uncertainty of times in emails and people getting phone messages etc. that it might seem people are not being honest, when in actuality they are. Coming from one of those "tech challenged oldies" you speak of, I can tell you life was much more in order when there was only one techinical machine to depend on, (the phone). People work and sleep all different hours which makes for lots of confusion at times
You are wrong if you think I don't know what goes on. Having had some serious health problems, I have had to spend lots of time being inactive. So I have read the forum faithfully for the better part of a year, that's why I knew they needed web help. But even at that , yesterday I touched base with 5 people in the club on this Facebook subject and 4 of them told me pretty much the same story--1 chose to stay out of it. I usually don't throw in my 2 cents unless I know of what I speak.
You say you believe in being straight forward and to the point--well Jeff that is one of my faults too. So I will tell you my thoughts on your actions with Facebook when I first saw that you had made an Overlanders4x4 account. My thoughts were "Why??" Why would you do that for a club that you are so angry at? A club that you have badmouthed on here for months. You seem so angry at the club, why do you then have anything to do with this message board? To many Facebook pages is going to be much like "to many cooks spoil the broth". Is that your intentions??
As far as gratitude, this club does owe you a big Thank You for all the years you did take care of the message board and website and you did all the graphics for the newsletters and flyers (People don't understand how much intense work goes into them. They probably think it is like on tv when the guy types in a few lines and walla--there you are. But we know it takes lots of time, effort and patience to produce a finished product). And you did put in lots of time getting the word out. Also need to thank Deb for all of the great videos and yes you for editing them, which also takes LOTS of time and patience. If I remember right , you often arranged and gave dinners and cook outs. Yep you have done lots for this club but (once again, being brutally honest) All that, does not give you license to try to use their own forum to degrade them.
Now maybe you will say that you aren't trying to degrade anyone. Maybe that is so, but what you post comes across like that to the majority of our readers, so if that is not your intention, you need to take a serious look at what you are posting and change it.
I remember a time when you were first learning how to do the admin functions on the message board, when I used to cringe and bite my tongue because you deleted posts from so many posters. This is not a criticism, just a memory.
I know the club has faults, what club doesn't. I think one of the main problems is that most of the guys just want to have fun, it's not a business, money isn't the objective. And I say that after spending a season collecting money for them.
As to your other items, I can't speak of them because I know no facts, just hearing your side, it does sound unfair, but I am sure there are two sides to every coin. I can tell you this, and I know it for a fact! Life is not Fair!!! Learn by it, try to right it, but then move on. Life is to short to dwell on the losses!!
I meant what I said when I asked that you post here without the negative spin. You could be a valuable asset to the forum, but not as long as you have that mindset. I hope you can find peace with your anger. You have stated your case, and it really has not seemed to change anyones mind. I am not saying what is right or wrong. I am saying, It's just time to stop beating the dead horse.
Respectfully,
Arlene
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Post by fbomb on Jul 9, 2012 19:19:10 GMT -6
Arlene it's your right to feel that way and I respect that.
You too apparently feel I was not wronged when I wasn't allow to join facebook and fail to realize or acknowledge that's the only reason I created the page. It's too easy to say well McCue was starting trouble when I went for two weeks trying to get answers before I made my own. No I don't care if the Overlanders sanction my page or not it's their loss, but I do not expect them to delete my posts because they don't like the page that is promoting their races!! That to me is insane and if your disagreeing with that because of your previous position not liking facebook, then the facts will not sway your opinion apparently. Of the club members you poled not counting the actual sanctioned facebook mud club owners, how many of them had facebook accounts themselves? The reason I ask, other than Justin and who told me he was for it. Roger, and Sam sounded like they were for my facebook page on the phone. John sounded like he was for it on the phone. And Mike and RJ sounded to me on the phone like they weren't against it, and leaning toward it.
Me deleting posts on this board? I have to respectfully disagree with that. I've owned computers since my apple in 1985 and quickly knew what delete meant. I'd had 17 years of computer experience when you say I was learning how to use the "Delete" function when we started this board. I wholeheartedly disagree with your recollection!
I'm sorry to hear about your health problems and glad you are doing better.
Jeff McCue
PS Arlene one more thing. I was just bringing you up to speed with the above situations that I have been treated unfairly about. I have in open forum been over all of these with the Overlanders and each topic they have failed to defend successfully. If anyone would like to call me in person if the Overlanders think I'm incorrect about anything that I have posted please feel free to call me tonight between 11:00 and 12:00 or tomorrow morning(after 9) and I will be more than happy to remind you how unfairly I've been treated. 309-337-8888
Would someone who is telling one sided stories offer that?
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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2012 19:37:58 GMT -6
I did not ever say that I believe one or the other side- I try very hard to remain neutral on this board.
Like I said, rather it happened the way you say, or any other way, you are beating a dead horse.
I also caution you to not try to guess what I think or believe.. you most likely would be wrong--you are on a couple of statements you have made here about my thoughts.
Now I have said all I am going to say on the subject.
I wish you well.
Arlene
How about starting a post asking if the heat has gotten to anyone? I thank God every day for our air-conditioner.
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